Digital Television, Part I: Making Sense of it all
Digital Television (DTV) is upon us friends — some of you already lie prostrate at its feet, a few of you cower in terror at its approach, and we’ll lay odds that most of you, whether you live in Amsterdam or New Amsterdam, are confused as hell about what it all means. So let’s all gather ‘round this phosphorescent global campfire, and we’ll tell you a scary story which makes that man with a hook-hand sound as passive as Bo Peep.
First,
prepare yourself for a pig’s breakfast of acronyms son, there’s just no way around it: DAB, T-DMB, DVB-T, DVB-H, ATSC,
and ISDB-T. At least these are the tastiest of the morsels under global mastication. Come on, don’t sweat it, you
managed PCMCIA didn’t you, and that’s six whole letters! Besides, you really only need to learn the couple
selected by the country you call home to effectively talk down to your local hi tech sales goon, mkay? So do join us as we take an
extensive, in-depth look at what's really going on with the world of digital television.
Misconceptions
Let’s clear up a few things right away: 1) DTV is not HDTV, and 2) if you are a reader of Engadget, your TV is not likely to go black once your friendly government pushes the big red button labeled “analog switch off.”
See, HDTV is simply the highest quality format of digital television -- that “D” is for definition, not digital. Your digital broadcaster may in fact choose to broadcast in Standard-Definition (SDTV) format which offers an equivalent pixel resolution as the best analog signal, but allows broadcasters to squeeze more channels down the same analog TV pipe. Broadcasters could also enhance the quality a bit to EDTV (Extended-Definition, similar to DVD resolution), or, god willing, throw down that good HDTV fix we’ve all got the jones for.
Ok, that’s a bit more clear, now how about your TV’s viability after the analog switch off? Well, that old Emerson boob-o-tube you watch while bleeding pigs in the barn might have some trouble only if your Hee Haw reception requires adjustment to the rabbit ears. However, if you’re pumping a cable or satellite signal into that old set then the accompanying set-top box provided by Cablevision, DirecTV, etc. is already doing the analog-to-digital signal conversion for you. Oh, and if all else fails you’ll likely be able to appeal to GeeDub or other governmental body for a free signal convertor. After all, they stand to make billions (and billions) in revenue as they auction off the reclaimed analog spectrum which sits in the wireless sweet-spot — offering low transmitter density due to long signal propagation while avoiding the worst effects of man-made interference.
Analog TVs will also continue to work with cable, satellite, VCRs, DVD players, camcorders, video games consoles and other devices for many years to come. However, at some point you’ll have to throw down for a swank new digital television if you really want to explore your favorite starlets in all two million pixels of pockmarked glory. By 2007, it will be tough to find a new analog set in the US since by then the FCC will have mandated the inclusion of digital tuners in all new TVs larger than 13-inches.
Oh, and one more thing — that sweet, sweet digital TV we’ve seen on those Korean cellphones does not run over 3G. Mobile DTV is broadcast independently of the existing carrier signal. See, mobile DTV solutions offer a one-to-many broadcast service (i.e. digital terrestrial broadcasting) whereas 3G and other cellular technologies are one-to-one solutions. Even UMTS’ Multimedia Broadcast Multicast Service (MBMS) can easily become overloaded when broadcasting popular video programs. Not that this is really an issue since voice and data is going to fetch far more revenue per minute per subscriber than video anyway. If you really want to broadcast the evening news to rush hour commuters, then 3G just ain’t gonna cut it. And unless you live in Japan, mobile DTV handsets require a separate broadcasting standard from that which pumps DTV into your living room TV, at least if you expect your battery to last more than a few minutes.
Why switch?
Besides superior picture quality and your irrational lust for the latest-and-greatest, DTV consumers also stand to gain all the CD quality sound, on-demand-video, and digital broadcast content we sick TV lovin’ bastages could ever hope for. Likewise, DTV’s ability to deliver data enables broadcasters to provide sophisticated, web-like functionality overlaying programming as well as rich, IMDB-like electronic program guides -- you know, the good stuff required before committing to two-hours of a made-for-TV movie (even if it is “based on real life events”). The options are thick and will just keep coming as those analog frequencies become available for reuse, bringing to market the advanced wireless consumer services we crave and improvements in public safety services we need.
As already mentioned, governments stand to make mad fists of cash as they reclaim and then auction off the analog spectrum. The US sale should generate anywhere between $10 and $30 billion with similar cha-chinging sounds resonating from Europe. Makers of DTV set-top boxes like Philips and Thomson are already doing booming business with Nokia and others testing the waters as well. And let’s not forget conventional broadcasters who see the opportunity to diversify and sell more ads. And when DTV goes mobile in 2006, even cellular operators will get in on the action.
Of course, all this goodness comes at a price. Standards must be agreed under intense political lobbying, broadcast frequencies must be allocated in an already very crowded radio spectrum, and then there’s that small matter of paying to replace the analog production, transmission, and reception equipment required for full digital implementation. Oh, and expect to operate DTV and analog TV services in parallel for several years during the cutover.
And the economics of DTV are still risky — are viewers willing to pay more for extra lines of resolution, and more importantly, do they really want to receive TV on their cellphones? Well, the industry is counting on you to squint dutifully into your cellphone for several minutes at a time with research firms like Juniper estimating that as many as 65 million people will tune-in globally by 2010 — each prepared to fork-over a fixed fee of about $5-10 per month. The draw: sports, weather updates, news briefs, and all the latest social intercourses for your afternoon commute consumption.
But if the carrots of higher quality television and mobile reception aren’t enough to convince peeps to switch, there’s always the stick. Big-mama governments everywhere are setting hard switch-off dates into law by which analog broadcasts must cease. These dates range from 2006 for the Netherlands to well, like-forevah for countries still weighing the benefts vs. cost vs. demand vs. available standards. Yes, like any good standard…you have several substandards to choose from.
Broadcasting standards
Fortunately, the standards battle for bringing digital TV into your home has pretty much been fought and won. Yeah, you may not be happy with your country’s selection (cough, USA) but at least we can get on with the teevee bidness in the living room. However, the landscape is not nearly so tidy in the fight to bring TV to mobile devices like cellphones.
See, DTV reception must cover two primary audiences: fixed devices inside buildings that have ample power and rarely move, and those mobile handheld devices powered by batteries (cellphone / PMP / laptop) that might be in or outdoors, or even travelling down the autobahn. As such, we have either fixed or mobile handset broadcasting standards which require a bit of explaining. So, let’s bump uglies with these two technologies awhile shall we?
Fixed Reception
Let’s start easy by talking about digital broadcast standards targeting fixed reception devices, since these decisions are pretty much set in stone for those blooper-loving first-world countries. At the moment, North America and South Korea are on-board with Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) and pretty much the rest of the world (besides Japan) has gone Terrestrial Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB-T). Japan has chosen to go it alone with Terrestrial Integrated Services Digital Broadcasting (ISDB-T), which they are not pushing as a global standard even though Brazil has shown interest. Here’s a very high level summary of those standards head-to-head.
|
ATSC |
ISDB-T |
DVB-T |
|
|---|---|---|---|
|
Video |
MPEG-2 |
MPEG-2 |
MPEG-2 |
|
Audio |
AC-3 |
AAC |
AC-3 or AAC |
|
Disadvantages |
ATSC signal cannot adapt to changes in propagation conditions Cannot broadcast to either handheld or mobile devices, unless of course, you fancy carrying around your 42-inch plasma |
Almost all TV broadcasts are encrypted with copy-once protection — tuners and TVs are relatively expensive |
Requires lots of power to transmit a signal into rural areas Can not transmit to handheld devices due to severe battery drain |
|
Advantages |
Requires as little as half the transmission power for same reception quality of DVB-T |
Good for simultaneously broadcasting both a robust HDTV signal and one for handset/mobile reception |
Open global standard which offers better reception in urban areas Can transmit to mobile devices such as bus TVs |
Not much sense in going into why each country selected which. Let’s just say that DVB is European developed and ATSC patents holders reside in The States… ‘nuff said.
Mobile Handset Reception
If you’re a fan of format wars a la Betamax vs. VHS or more recently, Blu-ray vs. HD DVD then you’ll love what’s coming with mobile DTV. In one corner, we’ve got the DAB (Digtal Audio Broadcasting) boys teamed up with South Korea’s Samsung, LG, and HTC manufacturing muscle pushing the Terrestrial Digital Multimedia Broadcasting (T-DMB) standard, while Nokia, Motorola and others are staunchly backing Digital Video Broadcasting for Handhelds (DVB-H) in the other. This battle is going to be big for broadcast digital video… the way that children think of God as big.
Nokia is making it absolutely clear that they are committed to
making DVB-H the global standard. They claim DVB-H is in pilot in about 40 countries
worldwide — er, we found 15, and some of those are completed already but you can define “pilot”
pretty broadly these days a la Google and “beta.” Nevertheless, Nokia equips nearly all
these pilots with their own 7710 handset and
are also developing an end-to-end IP-Datacasting (IPDC) service (available to the pilots) which schedules and processes
the incoming video and audio services and transforms them into a DVB-H signal. With their recent launch of the N92, they have even started taking public shots at DMB saying
“we think DMB is going to be Korea-based from here to eternity.” In fact, you’ll hear a lot about
DVB-H being the ”European standard” especially if you listen to Nokia execs.
True, it is the ETSI (European Telecommunications Standard Institute) mobile TV recommendation for Europe with the
keyword here being “recommendation” — ETSI recommendations are not compulsory. Hell, DMB is also an
ETSI standard for mobile TV. As such, countries can still do as they please, and they are.
But this isn’t just a two horse race, particularly in the US where Qualcomm is coming up hard on the outside with their MediaFLO mobile DTV offering. They are already busy testing and deploying the $800 million MediaFLO network across the nation in Qualcomm’s 700 MHz spectrum, which they purchased from the FCC for an additional $70 mil. Volume shipments of FLO handsets are expected next year as Qualcomm begins its commercial rollout in partnership with Verizon. The next natural step then, is for Qualcomm to start stamping out chipsets and license the technology to their CDMA buddies in Asia and go after the standards-lovin’ GSM boys in Europe all over again.
And as we already mentioned, Japan has their ISDB-T digital broadcast solution which also covers mobile and handheld devices nicely but will remain an exclusively Japanese phenomena — nothing new to see here, so we’ll move along.
So let’s take a look at the biggies side-by-side with one caveat: there is
enormous disagreement regarding the differences in these technologies. This is only further exasperated by the particular
frequencies governments allocate for broadcasting (affecting handset antenna design, transmitter density/coverage, interference, etc) as well as
limitations introduced by sub-optimal handset designs (Nokia 7710). One thing is certain — MediaFLO was designed
specifically for mobile DTV handset reception whereas T-DMB and DVB-H are modifications to existing technologies to
make them suitable to the task. However, as we well know, the best technology rarely doesn’t always
win.
|
T-DMB |
DVB-H |
MediaFLO |
|
|---|---|---|---|
|
Video |
MPEG-4 (H.264) |
MPEG-4 (H.264) |
MPEG-4 (H.264) |
|
Audio |
BSAC |
AAC |
AAC |
|
Core Technology |
Eureka 147 Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) with additional error correction — DAB is already popular in Europe particularly in the UK and Germany |
DVB-T with time-slicing and operating in IP environment — DVB-T already rolling out in Europe and elsewhere |
Proprietary Qualcomm multicast technology technology called Forward Link Only (FLO) |
|
Disadvantages |
The L-Band frequencies (1452 - 1467.5 MHz) already set aside for DAB require a much higher density of transmitters to provide adequate coverage — and scaling up for large amounts of services would require additional frequency allocation DAB-happy UK and others have rolled out digital radio in band III (around 221 MHz) which could mean large antennas strapped to their DMB enabled cellphones should these countries choose to ride their DMB broadcasts on top of DAB transmissions Maximum data rate of 1.152 Mbps in about 1.5 MHz of bandwidth Current Korean handsets have long telescoping antennas that westerners would reject |
More susceptible to signal variations and synchronization problems Requires higher transmitter powers UHF frequencies (470-860 MHz) are ideal for DVB-H but these are tied up with analog TV transmissions — other frequency bands can also be used The Nokia 7710 used in European tests has demonstrated poor battery life and delays of 12-to-15 seconds between channel changes — delays are in part due to DVB-H time slicing technology |
Proprietary, isolated technology currently without the backing of the larger wireless industry — will be difficult to get a foothold globally without industry support Qualcomm has yet to trial the technology publicly keeping it tightly held until it matures in-house Designed to work in UHF from 450 MHz to 3 GHz some of which is currently allocated to analog television broadcasts — only the US has allocated the 700 MHz frequency for MediaFLO, all other countries would have to assign spectrum |
|
Advantages |
Open standard with wide-backing from wireless industry in Asia and DAB community in Europe L-Band frequencies are already set aside for DAB so DMB could take advantage of these where available with little legislation Time Division Multiplexing delivery inherent in DMB transmits specific content at specific time intervals which allows the receiver to be shut down in between these intervals to save power Channel switching time of about 1.5 seconds on current T-DMB devices |
Open standard with wide-backing from the wireless industry, particularly in Europe Maximum data rate of 15 Mbps in 5-8 MHz of bandwidth down to 5 Mbps if robust reception required Time-slicing helps conserve battery power since the receiver is only on when viewing the channel of interest While DVB-H can be transmitted on a dedicated channel, it is designed to share a multiplex with DVB-T and can take advantage of the hierarchical transmission capability of DVB-T |
Built from the ground up for transmitting content to handheld devices — technologically superior to both T-DMB and DVB-H Claim average channel switching time of 1.5 seconds Claim to fit more channels per chunk of bandwidth thereby offering access to more than twice as many channels as DVB-H (which DVB-H disputes) Like T-DMB, MediaFLO uses Time Division Multiplexing to conserve power More aggressive error correction and a form of hierarchical transmission called “layering” provides a more robust signal reception even in poor signal areas |
That's a good amount for today -- come back tomorrow and we’ll look at implementation status on a global scale. So stay tuned, as they say!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
keith coutinho @ Jan 17th 2006 12:48PM
Very informative thanks :)
GeeksAreSexy @ Jan 17th 2006 12:48PM
Oh no, whole new sets of stadards and acronyms to learn :( Add in a few 100's, we already didnt have enough
Anonymous @ Jan 17th 2006 1:12PM
Hey...is it my imagination or is there text being pushed to the left of the table between FIXED RECEPTION and HANDSET RECEPTION? Any way you could repost so we can read that portion?
Chris @ Jan 17th 2006 1:22PM
Strangely this very good article ends with "and...". Are we missing something?
Matt @ Jan 17th 2006 2:29PM
awesome stuff. thank you!
Me? A luddite? @ Jan 17th 2006 2:37PM
Reasons to keep my analogue cable signal:
1 Cheap
2 Excellent picture quality on my EDTV Plamsa
3 One cable coming in, going to: two TVs, two video recorders and two TV tuner cards in my media PC. All excellent picture quality.
4 No ugly set top boxes.
Reasons for going the digital route:
1 Expensive: Need 6 set top boxes? Need to lay in more wall sockets?
2 Ugly and cumbersome: Need six set top boxes?
3 DRM?
4 Variable picture quality depending on how many signals they try to cram in?
5 Unknown future standards MPEG 2, MPEG 4 etc.
6
L-mo @ Jan 17th 2006 2:38PM
The statement that analog broadcasting in the Netherlands will cease in 2006 (april 1st). Only counts for antenna receivers. I guess less then 1% of the people in the Netherlands use a analog antenna (only 3 channels and cable access almost everywhere). Analog broadcasting will remain to continue on cable.
However some cable companies are providing free set-top boxes for digital television. The downside is that it will only work for 1 television (most homes have more).
Tim Jansen @ Jan 17th 2006 2:41PM
The DVB-T codecs are not correct: DVB-T can use MP2 as audio codec (in germany all channels use MP2; some have AC-3 as alternative audio track). And France announced to use DVB-T with MPEG4.
Matt Smith @ Jan 17th 2006 2:49PM
Hang on... Let me get this right? You're *just* getting digital? What? Thought you guys were the most powerful nation in the world.
Sheesh.
granny down east @ Jan 17th 2006 3:07PM
#9, Matt- US = the land of the free.
Analog= free.
Digital cable, satellite= $50/mo or more.
'nuff said.
Mike @ Jan 17th 2006 3:33PM
You know what I HATE?
On my HD TV, all of my non-HD channels look like shit.
And all my HD channels looks just like they did on my old TV that wasn't HD.
The only Difference is that now my TV is 50" rather then 26"....
No one told me HDTV would screw up the non-HD channels. =/ I want my money back =/.
slysithesuperspy @ Jan 17th 2006 4:00PM
#12 sit further back, the tv will look smaller :P
Grant @ Jan 17th 2006 4:29PM
Those of us that work in the consumer electronics manufacturing market-space (NO, I'm not at liberty to say which one) just LOVE when people get all confused about this stuff. It's basically our goal to turn television watching into a process not entirely unlike filing your taxes -- YOU throw wads of cash at us, and WE'LL give you what WE say you need.
Okay, so that's somewhat of an exaggeration. Maybe. As far as YOU know.
In all seriousness, however, the reason most consumers are confused about all this is because it's never been made clear exactly what digital TV really IS. When they hear "the analog signal is going dark" the first thing they think is, "OMG! I have to get a new television or I won't be able to see images on the talking picture box anymore!!!1!" We know that's not true -- but if you make televisions, why would you be inclined to dissuade anyone of that notion?
The truth is, if you own a television that operates solely from an antenna with no connectivity to cable or satellite, you're going to lose the 3 good channels you get when the gubmint flips the switch. This scenario is basically only going to affect the people living in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia, and even then, the Waltons and Hatfields will be able to get by just fine if they want to pony up for a digital converter.
But again, most people don't know this YET. But they will, and they'll be doing some big time ex-po-says on the news as soon as it gets closer to the deadline in a few years. Too bad everybody that needs to know it won't get the channels they need to watch it until it's too late.
ddeeds @ Jan 17th 2006 4:37PM
One thing I've never seen addresses is what will all of TVs with less than 13" displays (and no mandated digital tuner) receive? Or does the small TV market just go away.
I personally think that companies such as USDTV may pull enough people off of cable/satellite to screw up their volume pricing.
Of course if the networks continue to only offer 1 or 2 programs per evening, this may never fly. Or pull other BS like NBC did showing the olympics in HD, but a day behind the NTSC broadcast!
takao @ Jan 17th 2006 4:38PM
hmm and DVB-S ? DVB-C ? i thought it is still yet undecided which compressions will get used depending on country... (and of course encrpytion of some subscription services are also different depending of country etc.)
ironically one of the biggest points of criticism of digital is the problem of picture quality because of artifacts and broadcasters choosing 4 letterbox channels over one hdtv (or other dowgrading from PAL resolution / lowering bitrates even further etc to save money)
it's actually a step back (not for all of course) so i'm not surprised by comments that normal TV looks worse ;)
joey @ Jan 17th 2006 5:00PM
#12 You speak the gospel!
Long live #12!!!!
stephen cushen @ Jan 17th 2006 5:08PM
hands up whos still confused
so do i purchase the samsung HDTV i was looking at today or not?
or is my shitty ntl signal (Ireland) going to look even worse?
warrenpeace @ Jan 17th 2006 6:27PM
Ya, I hear ya #12. I just got a 32" LCD HDTV before Xmas, which isn't huge, but has a big effect on the quality of regular tv (which is also being compressed a bit, while it goes through my TiVo). I sometimes will go into my bedroom and watch my 4:3 ratio LCD in there, which is only 13" 'cause it masks the inferior quality.
DVD's look amazing and I can hook my computer up to it, but you'd think there would be some sort of mechanism in the tv to 'down-convert' the quality so it doesn't look so awful. I think I'm going to get the HDTV box soon, but sad that I won't be able to TiVo anything.
Kenneth @ Jan 17th 2006 6:41PM
Why was DAB mentioned? It shouldn't have just because it is a radio transmission method, not a TV transmission method.
Tony @ Jan 18th 2006 12:08AM
#12 and others are seeing why fixed-panel displays arent's always the best solution... my 51" rear-projection CRT (old school) looks GREAT on all channels. And you know what? It has built in OTA HD and CableCard so no set top boxes after all! Hmm... shop around.
commerce cmte @ Jan 18th 2006 1:27AM
the govt will only make 10 billion max from the selling of the analog spectrum. and then they have to spend clost to a billion to pay for set top converter boxes. it's really not that much money...and that's not the reason folks should be focused on anyway. even 30 billion is not a lot, especially in 2009 dollars.
mabs @ Jan 18th 2006 2:56AM
Great article, you may already have the info, but DVB-T, DVB-S & DVB-H and probably DVB-C seem to be the big ones down here in Australia, and I know, since I live in a regional area that the DVB transmitters are getting the same coverage area for 1/4 of the power output of the analogue equivalents.
For those in Australia that want to know more information, duck over to http://www.dba.org.au/ , heaps of useful info including coverage details and open forums.
I also don't see much of the radio spectrum in Australia being freed up, except in the lower VHF band, as most of this is already allocated to other services, so I don't see a big cash windfall as in the US.
And unless you live in a state capital in Australia, digital TV is very hit and miss, and probably miss more often than not. I am in a regional area and I struggle for reception.
mabs @ Jan 18th 2006 3:20AM
Oh and in reply to CODECs for DVB-T, you are spot on. In Australia we use mpeg2/mp2 (normally about 3-7Mbit/s + 224kbit/s (DVD qual)) for SDTV and mpeg2/ac3 (bitrates vary) for HDTV, and there has been talk of using mpeg4 for HDTV while DTV STB uptake is still low.
After error correction we also have 19.2Mbit/s for a 7MHz channel, which seems to be sufficient for 1 to 3 SD channels and a HD channel (although some HD fans may argue with that).
Trond M. @ Jan 18th 2006 5:15AM
#20 - DAB is mentioned because DMB will be broadcast using DAB transmitters. You can even have DMB-channels in the same multiplex as DAB-channels.
Flip @ Jan 18th 2006 7:47AM
Lets take a second look at this from another viewpoint. Is there anything on basic cable in the middle of the night but infomercials? Is Hollywood making anything other than remakes of remakes or crappy vehicles for stars to star in? When was the last time a movie was made because of a great story? Now it's more like find a story we can fit to a star. I watch way to much crap now and doubt its going to be any better as long as corporate hollywood is making movies. As far as watching tv on a phone not a chance of getting me interested since I will never own a cell phone. You people amaze me in that I cannot imagine wanting to talk on a phone let alone watch tv on one.
L-mo @ Jan 18th 2006 4:08PM
@Matt Smith
Yes, the first 6 months its free after that its about $3 extra a month, but its just marketing. Customers are just "renting" the set-top box and the cable company will start advertising with extra channels and such to make money. And "free digital television" is not that good in the netherlands, most channels are still the same quality and changing channels takes forever...
Dominic Evans @ Jan 19th 2006 12:15PM
We have had FREE DAB and DVB-* TV for a few years in the UK now, i'm supprised how behind the US is with this (well i guess the US cant rule the world with everything lol).
The quality with most channels is very very good, but with the smaller networks/channels it can look pretty bad at times. You can really see the compression, which i guess is down to bandwitch/cost issue.
With the mobile phone companies (Nokia etc) who have just started using DVB to tranmit live TV channels to mobile phones using a for of DVB over hese (works pretty well BTW, the phones are not that big either), i would have thought they would use that in the states rather than have the extra cost of using a completely different standard over there.
w0rn @ Jan 20th 2006 1:54PM
#12, I agree.
My added beef with "digital" and HDTV is that I went from a 60" rear projection TV to a 42" plasma TV.
Non-digital channels look crappy, while they look great on my larger and smaller analog TVs.
Also the content providers send broadcasts with TV shows of all sizes.
I'm watching on a 16:9 Plasma and commercials are 16:9 but for a 4:3 screen (I have to switch the plasma to Cinema mode to fill the screen) and other content keeps switching formats.
It's all very irritating.
I posted this on AVSforum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=553590
If I know now what the digital revolution would be, I would have stayed analog for as long as possible.
Being able to mount a plasma on a wall over the fireplace is NOT WORTH the cost of the current content and "digital" services.
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Bob Miller @ Jan 30th 2006 4:49PM
A couple of problems with your article.
DVB-T can use MPEG-4. France will use DVB-T and MPEG-4 for HDTV and a subscription service. Anyone implementing DVB-T from here on in will use MPEG-4.
DVB-T does not require more power than 8-VSB for the same reception quality. 8-VSB reception is BAD a mile from the transmitter, 2 miles, 3 miles you name it.
I would allow ANY 8-VSB advocate to pick any spot in the coverage area of a broadcaster where they can get reception of 8-VSB and at the same power level using the same broadcast antenna we will drive around that spot receiving DVB-T mobile.
Drop the "8-VSB requires less power" BS.
The big bucks that are expected from auctions of spectrum in the US, Channels 52 thru 59 may not bring in all that much. Three channels have already been auctioned, 54, 55 and 59. Qualcomm bought 55 and paid all of maybe $36 million for it nationwide except for the West Coast which they had to buy from Aloha for an undisclosed amount but Aloha only gave the US Treasury maybe $4.5 million for that.
At that rate ALL these channels will bring in less than ONE BILLION $$. Or NOT enough to pay for those JUNK converter boxes that Congress will give away.
And those JUNK converter boxes will go to those mose affected by analog turnoff, inner city residents who can't afford cable or satellite. The inner cities is also exactly where thise JUNK converter boxes will not work worth ****.
Congress expected a backlash from analog turnoff because these people couldn't afford a converter box. But they have no idea the fury that these JUNK converter boxes will unleash when the recipients find that they don't work. And these folks can't afford to fiddle with rooftop antennas and the cost of installation EVEN IF THEY COULD install a rooftop antenna which they CAN'T in most cases.
There is going to be all hell to pay come 2009. And the rest of the world by then will be basking in very successful DTV transitions including the Chinese Olympics using DVB-T or DMB-T.
Richard Craig @ Feb 4th 2006 11:55PM
I am a comment spammer: vivaelectronicint@hotmail.com
fr33 3ye-p0ds 1f u 3mail m3
Richard Craig @ Feb 4th 2006 11:57PM
I am a comment spammer: vivaelectronicint@hotmail.com
fr33 3ye-p0ds 1f u 3mail m3
Richard Craig @ Feb 5th 2006 1:26PM
We are selling the new Nokia N92 for just $200USD
We are selling the new Motorola V3i for just $139USD
We are selling the new Sony Ericsson W800i for just $189USD
We are selling the new Apple I-pods for just $80USD
We are selling the new Sony Digital Camcorder for just $300USD
We are selling the new P4 or Pm laptop as low from $500USD
The Latest Nokia 7380 is available for just $249USD
The Latest Nokia 7370 is available for just $239USD
The Latest Nokia 7360 is available for just $229USD
The New Samsung D820 is available for just $249USD
We have various brand of products from Mobile Phones, Computers and accessories, Electronics (Plasma TVs, Digital Cameras, Camcorders, Video Games, I-pods Nano, I-pods Shuttle). All available at affordable prices. For further enquiries, forward your mails to dt_telecoms@usa.com, dt_telecomservices@yahoo.ca, rc.dt.telecoms@gmail.com. Looking forward to satisfying you.
Best Regards
For: Dee Tee Telecoms Services
R. Craig
Tim @ Feb 7th 2006 10:42AM
Thanks, Richard Craig, for spamming. Now I know who I will NOT buy anything from!
DUKE EMMANUEL @ Mar 4th 2006 10:07PM
I am a comment spammer: vivaelectronicint@hotmail.com
fr33 3ye-p0ds 1f u 3mail m3
joseph adams @ Mar 9th 2006 5:46PM
We sell Brand New mobile phones and Acessories at a cheaper/affordable price sealed in original company box .
ATTACH IS OUR VERY CURRENT PRICE LIST OF GSM PHONES FOR YOUR REFERENCE
Nokia E60-$190
Nokia E61-$195
Nokia N-Gage-$170
Nokia N70-$210
Nokia N71-$225
Nokia N80-$230
Nokia N90-$240
Nokia N91-$255
Nokia N92-$280
Nokia 9500-$200usd
Nokia 9300-$186usd
Nokia 8800-$190usd
Nokia 7710-$70usd
Nokia 7610-$125usd
Nokia 7380-$270usd
Nokia 7270-$222usd
Nokia 7260-$204usd
Nokia 6822-$150usd
Nokia 6681-$154usd
Nokia 6680-$130usd
Nokia 6670-$173usd
Nokia 6630-$170usd
Nokia 6230i-166usd
Nokia 6170-$160usd
Nokia 6111-$162usd
Nokia 6101-$179usd
Nokia 6060-$140usd
Nokia 6030-$133usd
Nokia 6021-$80usd
Nokia 6020-$99usd
Nokia 5140i-$110usd
Nokia 3230-$120usd
Nokia 3220-$48usd
Nokia 3120-$38usd
Nokia 2650-$32usd
Nokia 2600-$30usd
Nokia 1600-$45usd
Nokia 1101-$40usd
Nokia 1100-$35usd
NOKIA 8910 TITANIUM-- US$180
NOKIA 8910I TITANIUM-- US$250
NOKIA 8850 SPECIAL EDITION-- US$300
NOKIA 8850 GOLD EDITION-- US$320
NOKIA 8910 BLACK-- US$195
NOKIA 9210 COMMUNICATOR-- US$190
NOKIA 9210I COMMUNICATOR-- US$180
SONY ERICSSON P900 $210
SONY-ERICSSON S600 185$
Sony Ericsson w800i 175$
SONY-ERICSSON K600 175$
SONY-ERICSSON K700i 145$
SONY-ERICSSON K500i 120$
SONY-ERICSSON D750 175$
SONY-ERICSSON K750i 175$
SONY-ERICSSON W800 175$
SONY-ERICSSON K750 175$
SONY-ERICSSON J300 175$
SONY-ERICSSON K600 155$
SONY-ERICSSON Z800 155$
SONY-ERICSSON K300 175$
SONY-ERICSSON J200 120$
SONY-ERICSSON T290 155$
SONY-ERICSSON V800 145$
SONY-ERICSSON P910 175$
SONY-ERICSSON S710 175$
SONY-ERICSSON K500 110$
SONY-ERICSSON F500i 95$
SONY-ERICSSON S700 145$
SONY-ERICSSON K700 120$
SONY-ERICSSON Z500 145$
SONY-ERICSSON T630 85$
SONY-ERICSSON P900 175$
SONY-ERICSSON P910i 175$
SONY-ERICSSON Z600 155$
SONY-ERICSSON Z200 95$
SONY-ERICSSON T230 55$
SONY-ERICSSON Z1010 120$
SONY-ERICSSON T610 55$
SONY-ERICSSON P800 95$
SONY-ERICSSON Z700 95$
MOTOROLA RAZR V3 $190
MOTOROLA E895 120$
MOTOROLA V1150 120$
MOTOROLA V8 120$
MOTOROLA V6 120$
MOTOROLA A1010 145$
MOTOROLA E1060 155$
MOTOROLA E1120 155$
MOTOROLA V560 155$
MOTOROLA K600 155$
MOTOROLA V635 120$
MOTOROLA A668 120$
MOTOROLA V980 145$
MOTOROLA C980 120$
MOTOROLA V600 120$
MOTOROLA V600i 120$
SAMSUNG D600 $185
SAMSUNG P860 175$
SAMSUNG P850 175$
SAMSUNG E730 175$
SAMSUNG D510 175$
SAMSUNG Z700 145$
SAMSUNG D720 175$
SAMSUNG Z130 110$
SAMSUNG Z500 120$
SAMSUNG Z300 110$
SAMSUNG E350 175$
SAMSUNG E720 175$
SAMSUNG B100 175$
SAMSUNG X640 175$
SAMSUNG X480 155$
SAMSUNG X460 155$
SAMSUNG D500 175$
SAMSUNG P730 155$
SAMSUNG P710 120$
SAMSUNG E630 175$
SAMSUNG E850 185$
SAMSUNG X120 95$
SAMSUNG E500 95$
SAMSUNG E310 95$
SAMSUNG E300 95$
SAMSUNG Z105 95$
SAMSUNG E610 95$
SAMSUNG E600 75$
SAMSUNG P510 120$
SAMSUNG E410 155$
SAMSUNG X450 75$
SAMSUNG E800 175$
SAMSUNG E810 185$
SAMSUNG X430 55$
SAMSUNG P705 95$
SAMSUNG D410 95$
SAMSUNG X600 120$
SAMSUNG X100 65$
SAMSUNG E715 155$
SAMSUNG E700 110$
SAMSUNG C100 15$
SAMSUNG D700 175$
SAMSUNG P500 175$
SAMSUNG E105 65$
SAMSUNG X410 85$
SAMSUNG X400 75$
SAMSUNG S200 85$
SAMSUNG E400 55$
Nextel i930 CELLPHONE $220
Nextel i55sr-- US$65
Nextel i2000plus-- US$35
Nextel i58sr-- US$30
Nextel i530-- US$35
Nextel i205-- US$20
Nextel i305-- US$25
Nextel i35s-- US$29
Nextel i88-- US$30
Nextel i90-- US$59
Nextel i95cl-- US$70
Nextel i60c-- US$40
Nextel 6510TM-- US$100
Nextel i730-- US$85
Nextel i733-- US$95
Nextel i736-- US$100
Nextel i830-- US$105
Nextel i860-- US$115
SIDEKICK CELLPHONES AVAILABLE FOR SALE !!!!!!!
sidekick 1 $110
sidekick 2 $100
SIEMENS CELLPHONES FOR SALE !
Siemens A35-- US$15
Siemens A40-- US$19
Siemens A50-- US$25
Siemens A52-- US$29
Siemens A55-- US$30
Siemens C45-- US$30
Siemens C55-- US$35
Siemens CL50-- US$70
Siemens CL55-- US$65
Siemens CT56-- US$30
Siemens M50-- US$35
Siemens M55-- US$110
Siemens MC60-- US$79
Siemens ME45-- US$50
Siemens S45-- US$60
Siemens SL42-- US$65
Siemens SL45i-- US$69
Siemens S55-- US$85
Siemens SL55-- US$115
Siemens SX45-- US$145
Siemens SX1-- US$160
Siemens Xelibri 1-- US$60
Siemens Xelibri 2-- US$70
Siemens Xelibri 3-- US$110
Siemens Xelibri 4-- US$80
Siemens Xelibri 5-- US$65
Siemens Xelibri 6-- US$85
Siemens Xelibri 7-- US$85
Siemens Xelibri 8-- US$95
We have lots of stucks available now.Serious buyer and Legit buyers contact us immediately :
josephadams4bus01@yahoo.com
josephadams4bus02@yahoo.com
josephadams4bus@yahoo.com
john @ Mar 14th 2006 8:00AM
Dear Buyers,
We have all kind of Mobile Phones For Sale.
Our Mobile Phones are:-
1) Brand new gsm phones (this includes accessories, Manuals, software and boxes) 2) Unlocked / sim free
3) Brand oem (original manufacturer) box - no copies
4) All phones have English language as default
5) All material (software, manual) - Car chargers - Home chargers - USB data cables - holsters/belt clips - Wireless headsets (Bluetooth) - Leather and non-leather carrying cases - Batteries If you are interested,
Foward your questions and enquires to us via email with your order and Shipping details.
We give 1 year warranty for every phone sold out to Our costumers, our phones are company class 1 tested And approved by global standard organization of Wireless industries, brand new phones with complete Accessory, extra charger and battery. Sorry we don't do business with Africa Or Nigeria.
Best regards.
LONDON PHONES MART
12 MAYFORD
OAKLEY SQUARE
LONDON ,NW1 1PQ
Company No. 05223230, VAT:GB 333022421
Tel: +447031846233 Fax: +447031846423
Email:londonphonemart@myway.com
:londonphonemart@ameinfo.com
Richard Craig @ May 10th 2006 1:46PM
Take advantage of the special "Discount Price" we are offering in
our products, which are: Varieties of Mobile Phones, Computers
and accessories, Electronics (Plasma TVs, Digital Cameras,
Camcorders, Video Games, Apple I-Pods Nanos and other mp3
player). All available at cheap/affordable prices also cover with
a-year warranty. For further enquiry, forward your mails to:
dt_telecoms@usa.com, dt_telecomservices@yahoo.ca,
We are looking forward to serving you better.
Best Regards,
For: Dee Tee Telecom Services
R. Craig
MOTOROLA MPX 300
MOTOROLA MPX 200
MOTOROLA V3x
Motorola V3i
Motorola V3c
Motorola W220
Motorola ROKR
NOKIA 7380
NOKIA 7370
NOKIA 7360
NOKIA 9500
NOKIA 8800
NOKIA 9300
Nokia 6101
NOKIA N70
Nokia N71,N72,N73
NOKIA N80
NOKIA N90
NOKIA N91
NOKIA N92
NOKIA N93
NEXTEL I860 AT JUST
NEXTEL I930 AT JUST
SONY ERICSSON P910
SONY ERICSSON K500i
SONY ERICSSON S700i
SONY ERICSSON P990i
SONY ERICSSON K750i
SONY ERICSSON P900
Sony Ericsson W800i
Sony Ericsson W810i
Sony Ericsson W900I
Sony Ericsson K950
Samsung E900
Samsung D870
Samsung D820
Samsung D810
Samsung D800
Samsung P900
Samsung E900
Samsung Z540
Samsung Z510
Samsung P860
SAMSUNG D500
SAMSUNG X640
SAMSUNG SGH-D410
...And other brands
I-pods (40GB)
I-pods (60GB)
I-pods video (60GB)
i-mate Jasjar
i-mate K-Jam
i-mate PDA-N
Handy Camcorders
Digital Cameras
Pentium 4/M Laptpps
Plasma TVs
==Recent Mobile==
Sharp 770SH
LG F2400
LG U8330
LG C3320
New Nseries Handsets
Nokia N93
Nokia N73
Nokia N72
Phone Telcom Ltd. @ May 16th 2006 5:36AM
We have all kind of Mobile Phones and Computers For Sale. We have All kind of Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola, Nextel,Laptop, Qtek, BenQ.Our Mobile Phones are:- Brand new gsm phones (this includes accessories, Manuals, software and boxes) P2) Unlocked / sim free.BR3) Brand new (original manufacturer) box - no copies BR4) All phones have English language as default 5) All material (software, manual) - Car chargers - Home chargers - USB data cables -holsters/belt clips - Wireless headsets (Bluetooth) - Leather and non-leather carrying cases - Batteries.If you are interested, Forward your questions and enquires to us via email with your order and Shipping details.
Serious buyers should contact.
We offer the best item's.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Best Regards.
Store Name: Phone Telcom Ltd
Addr : 183 Marsh Wall
E14 9SR,London.UK
Email : {phonetelcom@yahoo.com}.
Contact Number: +44-703-186-1296
Thank's and God bless.
Nokia 1100-- US$51
Nokia 2100-- US$53
Nokia 2300-- US$60
Nokia 3100-- US$62
Nokia 3108-- US$70
Nokia 3200-- US$85
Nokia 3230-- US$120
Nokia 3300 - US$65
Nokia 3310-- US$32
Nokia 3315-- US$32
Nokia 3330-- US$49
Nokia 3350-- US$42
Nokia 3410-- US$41
Nokia 3510-- US$49
Nokia 3510i-- US$54
Nokia 3530-- US$57
Nextel i860 =========$170
Nokia 6600 ==========$135
Nokia 6630 ========== $215
Nokia 6681===========$140
Nokia 6680===========$160
Sagem MY V-55========$65
Sagem 3020==========$130
Nokia 3595-- US$54
Nokia 3610-- US$63
Nokia 3650-- US$185
Nokia 3660-- US$215
Nokia 5100-- US$74
Nokia 5140-- US$125
Nokia 5210-- US$51
Nokia 5510-- US$115
Nokia 5550-- US$69
Nokia 5170iR-- US$39
Nokia 6020-- US$151
Nokia 6670-- US$124
Nokia 6630-- US$193
Nokia 6100-- US$94
Nokia 6108-- US$120
Nokia 6220-- US$115
Nokia 6230-- US$140
Nokia 6260-- US$145
Nokia 6310-- US$91
Nokia 6310i-- US$96
Nokia 6500-- US$61
Nokia 6510-- US$61
Nokia 6600-- US$140
Nokia 6610-- US$86
Nokia 6630-- US$210
Nokia 6170-- US$190
Nokia 6650-- US$81
Nokia 6800-- US$115
Nokia 6820-- US$120
Nokia 7200-- US$215
Nokia 7210 Turquoise-- US$115
Nokia 7230-- US$144
Nokia 7250-- US$145
Nokia 7250i-- US$149
Nokia 7260-- US$162
Nokia 7280-- US$172
Nokia 7600-- US$185
Nokia 7610-- US$200
Nokia 7650-- US$165
Nokia 8250-- US$81
Nokia 8310-- US$94
Nokia 8910 Titanium-- US$170
Nokia 8910 Black-- US$184
Nokia 8910i-- US$211
Nokia 8890-- US$34
Nokia 8850 Special Edition-- US$120
Nokia 8850 Gold Edition-- US$124
Nokia 8800 ------------ US$240
Nokia 6680......US $210
Nokia 6681......US $221
Nokia N90......US $165
Nokia N91......US $173
Nokia N70......US $163
Nokia 6060......US $120
Nokia 6111......US $170
Nokia 8855-- US$101
Nokia 9210 Communicator-- US$185
Nokia 9210i Communicator-- US$175
Nokia N-Gage-- US$116
Nokia 9500 (communicator)-- US$185
Nokia 9500 (communicator)-- US$194
Sony Ericsson P800-- US$163
Sony Ericsson P900-- US$210
Sony Ericsson P910i-- US$230
Sony Ericsson T20e-- US$35
Sony Ericsson T20s-- US$38
ony Ericsson T28s-- US$39
Sony Ericsson T28 World-- US$45
Sony Ericsson T29s-- US$49
Sony Ericsson T100-- US$30
Sony Ericsson T105-- US$35
Sony Ericsson T200-- US$45
Sony Ericsson T230-- US$54
Sony Ericsson T300-- US$53
Sony Ericsson T310-- US$53
Sony Ericsson T600-- US$67
Sony Ericsson T610-- US$120
Sony Ericsson T630-- US$135
Sony Ericsson T68i-- US$105
Sony Ericsson T68m-- US$111
Sony Ericsson Z200-- US$120
ny Ericsson Z600-- US$165
ny CMD-J5-- US$30
Sony CMD-Z7-- US$35
Sony CMD-J7-- US$40
Sony CMD-J6-- US$40
Sony CMD-Z5-- US$90
Sony CMD-MZ5-- US$155
Sony Ericsson R520m-- US$100
Sony Ericsson R380 World-- US$90
Sony Ericsson R380s-- US$105
Sony Ericsson R600-- US$35
Sony Ericsson S700-- US$175
Sony Ericsson K500i-- US$180
Sony Ericsson K700i-- US$189
Sony Ericsson K750i-- US$190
Smsung SGH A200-- US$50
Samsung SGH A300-- US$45
Samsung SGH A500-- US$70
Samsung SGH A800-- US$70
Samsung SGH C100-- US$85
Samsung SGH E400-- US$125
Samsung SGH E600-- US$129
Samsung SGH E700-- US$130
Samsung SGH E715-- US$155
Samsung SGH-E810-- US$140
Samsung SGH-E820-- US$150
Samsung SGH-E800-- US$155
Samsung SGH-E850-- US$140
Samsung SGH D410-- US$150
Samsung SGH D500-- US$155
Samsung SGH P400-- US$135
Samsung SGH P510-- US$139
Samsung SGH N188-- US$110
Samsung SGH N288-- US$60
Samsung SGH N500-- US$60
Samsung SGH N620-- US$60
Samsung SGH M100-- US$45
Samsung SGH P400-- US$140
Samsung SGH P410-- US$145
Samsung SGH P500-- US$155
Samsung SGH Q105-- US$40
Samsung SGH Q300--- US$70
Samsung SGH R220-- US$30
Samsung SGH R225-- US$25
Samsung SGH S100-- US$90
Samsung SGH S200-- US$100
Samsung SGH S300-- US$105
Samsung SGH S307-- US$12
Samsung SGH S500-- US$109
Samsung SGH T100-- US$110
Smsung SGH S105-- US$35
Samsung SGH T200-- US$125
Samsung SGH T400-- US$60
Samsung SGH T500-- US$90
Samsung SGH T700-- US$99
Samsung SGH V200-- US$105
Samsung SGH VM680-- US$100
Samsung SGH X400-- US$105
Samsung SGH X410-- US$130
Samsung SGH X426-- US$129
Samsung SGH-C200-- US$125
Samsung SGH-X460-- US$130
amsung SGH-X450-- US$130
Samsung SGH-X120-- US$99
Samsung SGH X600-- US$145
Samsung SGH-X610-- US$140
Samsung SGH-Z105-- US$120
Motorola A008-- US$50
Motorola A388-- US$70
Motorola A388c-- US$120
Motorola A820-- US$65
Motorola C330-- US$20
Motorola C331-- US$25
Motorola C332-- US$30
Motorola C333-- US$35
Motorola C350-- US$69
Motorola E360-- US$60
Motorola E365-- US$110
Motorola E380-- US$95
Motorola E398-- US$125
Motorola MPX200-- US$180
Motorola Accompli 008-- US$49
Motorola Timeport 280-- US$80
Motorola T190T-- US$25
Motorola Talkabout 191-- US$25
Motorola T720-- US$65
Motorola T720i-- US$85
Motorola V3Razor-- US$145
Motorola V66-- US$60
Motorola V60-- US$70
Motorola V3 ---US$20
Motorola V3I--US$25
Motorola V7--US$31
Motorola V60i-- US$75
Motorola V70-- US$105
Motorola V80-- US$115
Motorola V290-- US$80
Motorola V750-- US$125
Motorola V3688+-- US$120
Motorola V8088-- US$30
Motorola V525-- US$139
Motorola V300-- US$130
Motorola V400-- US$125
Motorola V500-- US$130
Motorola V600-- US$140
Siemens A35-- US$15
Siemens A40-- US$19
Siemens A50-- US$25
Siemens A52-- US$29
Siemens A55-- US$30
Siemens C45-- US$30
Siemens C55-- US$35
Siemens CL50-- US$70
Siemens CL55-- US$65
Siemens CT56-- US$30
Siemens M50-- US$35
Siemens M55-- US$120
Siemens MC60-- US$79
Siemens ME45-- US$50
Siemens S45-- US$60
Siemens SL42-- US$65
Siemens SL45i-- US$69
Siemens S55-- US$85
Siemens SL55-- US$125
Siemens SX45-- US$155
Siemens SX1-- US$180
Siemens Xelibri 1-- US$60
Siemens Xelibri 2-- US$70
Siemens Xelibri 3-- US$110
Siemens Xelibri 4-- US$80
Siemens Xelibri 5-- US$65
Siemens Xelibri 6-- US$85
Siemens Xelibri 7-- US$85
Siemens Xelibri 8-- US$95
Nextel i55sr-- US$65
Nextel i2000plus-- US$35
Nextel i58sr-- US$30
Nextel i530-- US$35
Nextel i205-- US$20
Nextel i305-- US$25
Nextel i35s-- US$29
Nextel i88-- US$30
Nextel i90-- US$59
Nextel i95cl-- US$70
Nextel i60c-- US$40
Nextel 6510TM-- US$110
Nextel i730-- US$85
Nextel i733-- US$95
Nextel i736-- US$105
Nextel i830-- US$115
Nextel i860-- US$125
Nextel i930-- US$140
Qtek phones
Qtek s200 =$100
Qtek 9000 =$130
Qtek 8310 =$200
Qtek 8300 =$210
Qtek 9100 =$240
Qtek 8100 =$250
Qtek s110 =$210
Qtek s100 =$200
Qtek 9090 =$210
Qtek 8020 =$200
Qtek 8010 =$180
Qtek 2020i=$240
Qtek 2020 =$250
Qtek 8080 =$130
Qtek 8060 =$160
Qtek 1010 =$150
Qtek 7070 =$250
PDA's
HP IPaq Pocket PC H4150 ========= $190
Asus MyPal A716 ================= $175
HP IPaq Pocket PC H4350 ========= $185
Toshiba Pocket PC E405 ========== $120
Sony Clie PEG-TH55 ============== $155
Toshiba Pocket PC E800 ========== $220
PalmOne Zire 72================== $120
PalmOne Tungsten E ============== $90
PalmOne Tungsten C ============== $140
PalmOne Zire 31 ================= $65
MOTOROLA RAZR V3X AT JUST $130
MOTOROLA MPX 220 AT JUST $140
MOTOROLA MPX 300 AT JUST $120
TREO 650 AT JUST $140
TREO 700W AT JUST $200
SIDEKICK II AT JUST $120
MICROSOFT XBOX 360 AT JUST $152
SAMSUNG D600 AT JUST $220
SAMSUNG D500 AT JUST $172
SAMSUNG D415 AT JUST $130
XBOX
Microsoft Xbox with Controller S Console..$90
BRAND NEW REFORBLISHED Xbox 360 Console.. $180
Microsoft Xbox Console. $90
Xbox 360 Core System Console.$130
Xbox Console System Bundle 2 Controllers & 3 Games .$100
Microsoft Xbox Console.. $90
Xbox Console System Bundle 2 Games. $90
Xbox Media Center Bundle.. $100
and many others
IPODS
iPod nano 2GB Black MP3 Player.$100US
iPod Video 30GB Black MP3 Player.$100
iPod Video 6